The Global Warming Deniers of Democratic Politics?

This is a Cross post of Blogger and radio host Cenk Uygur:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cenk-uygur /hillary-clinton-supporter_b_98604.html
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/4/25/ 114641/420/124/503309

Hillary Clinton supporters seem to have become the equivalent of global warming deniers in Democratic politics. If facts don't suit your argument, insist on the opposite. And even more importantly, insist that your non-facts get at least 50% of the coverage.

The Clinton team is now trying to make the specious argument that she is winning in the popular vote. The first problem with that argument is that it's not true. Obama still leads by over 500,000 votes. The second problem is that they try to include states like Michigan and Florida where all sides agreed not to campaign or have their delegates counted. Hillary Clinton's flip-flop on these states is even more absurd given that Obama wasn't even on the ballot in Michigan.

But the more fundamental problem with this popular vote argument is that it is the wrong metric. Nobody ever said they were running a campaign for more popular votes. If those were the ground rules, no one would have spent any time in Iowa or New Hampshire. Obama and the others would have been campaigning in California for six months to a year instead of those first primary and caucus states.

This is like saying we're counting only touchdowns in the middle of a basketball game. Well if I knew that was the game we were playing I would have put on a helmet and tackled you a long time ago. Why did I bother scoring all these baskets?

Look, this is absurd. Why is anyone humoring these arguments? Why do we have to cover Hillary Clinton's side as if it has as much validity as Obama's? This isn't about who is the better candidate; this is about facts and reality. She can claim to be better on healthcare, but she can't claim to have a lead in this race. One is subjective, the other is objective.

None of her arguments make any sense: She wins the big states - congratulations, go run for president in a country where there are only big states. The popular vote is now the relevant metric in this election - then you're disenfranchising all of the caucus states and changing the rules in the middle of the game. Obama is not electable - really, then why is he kicking your ass in this election?

I love the audacity of someone who is losing to another candidate claiming that candidate is not electable. So, what does that make you?

You might love Hillary Clinton, you might think she would make a great president and you might even have concerns about her opponent. You have a right to think all these things, but you don't have a right to your own math. Two plus two still equals four and Hillary's team shouldn't get equal time for claiming it equals five for her but only three for Barack.

We have got to stop treating these math deniers as if they have any legitimacy or credibility. They are spinning for their side and the tales they are spinning are comically wrong. And as always, the media is falling prey to the idea that every side of an argument must be presented equally rather than what the facts merit.

Check out The Young Turks live show M-F 3-7pm:
www.TheYoungTurks.com

Check out this video from yesterday's show, connects with Diary:



Display:


If (none / 0)

If you think this is a logical discussion that Democratic voters should be having, please Rec this.
Plus the current rec's as always are a little  um.......
Unable to rec or rate

Read this: http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/15/1427 30/254

by GeorgeP922 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:10:28 PM EST

I don't think it's constructive. (none / 0)

I think it's entirely accurate, but it's not going to bridge any gaps between the two camps, obviously.


by McNasty on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:14:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't think it's constructive. (none / 0)

But were talking about facts and reality.

At what point will the insanity end?

Will it end with her concession speech?
Hearing some people here I can't imagine what they will do.

We need people to stay interested in politics, no matter the stripes they wear.

I would be very sad if the hardcore HRC people didn't realize there is a huge Democratic party that continues past this election.

We have so much to fix and so much at stake, we need to push for party Unity now!

The end point is just 6 weeks away, both sides need to mentally prepare that their candidate might lose.   I have been prepared since Iowa, how about everyone else?


Unable to rec or rate

Read this: http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/15/1427 30/254

by GeorgeP922 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:21:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Gently with the facts. (none / 0)

I just see enough derangement here that I think the truth simply hurts too much for some people to hear.  There will have to be some healing soon, and while I respect the honesty and accuracy of Cenk's writing, it's not going to heal anything.

It's very difficult for me to imagine any longtime Democrat actually refusing to support Obama.  It's bluster.  Nonetheless, we should be focusing on the unity as you said, even if candidates are not yet.


by McNasty on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:27:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gently with the facts. (2.00 / 1)

My grandfather, who has literally voted for every Democrat since FDR, is going to be very hard to sell on Obama.

Obama may have all kinds of crossover appeal, but he  also has problems with some very real segments of the Democratic base.  It's not just bluster.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:32:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Global Warming Deniers of Democratic Polit (2.00 / 2)

It is not the popular vote which disenfrancises caucus state residents.

It is the caucus system which disenfranchises them.

If you don't get to vote because you're one of the people who can't attend a caucus, your vote counts for zilch even if your state has a full slate of delegates.  This should not be hard to understand.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:30:21 PM EST

Re: The Global Warming Deniers of Democratic Polit (none / 0)

I could understand that in the context of planning the 2012 election, but were not the Primary started 5 months ago, and campaigning started what, 2 years ago?

All your points can be debated but not in the context of invalidating the whole process once it already started.


Unable to rec or rate

Read this: http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/15/1427 30/254

by GeorgeP922 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:39:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Global Warming Deniers of Democratic Polit (2.00 / 1)

I'm not sure if you are new to this site, but we have been discussing the unfairness of the caucus process since long before the voting started, long before it was clear which candidate would be favored by the caucus system.

If you're interested, you might want to check out desmoinesdem's excellent series of diaries on the Iowa caucuses.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:43:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Why "Global Warming Deniers" in title? (2.00 / 1)

How is the extreme rhetoric helpful, to anything or anyone?


We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by fairleft on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:45:24 PM EST

Re: Why "Global Warming Deniers" in titl (none / 0)

Because when you look at the FACTS of contests thus far and the actions and statements of the campain...

I don't see any reason not to examine it.

You attack the piece as rhetoric just by the title, how about the body of the article, how about the video of Cenk and RJ show extreme rhetoric.


Unable to rec or rate

Read this: http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/15/1427 30/254

by GeorgeP922 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:49:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why "Global Warming Deniers" in titl (none / 0)

Global warming denial is absurd and goes directly against the facts. Hillary including Michigan and Florida in her popular vote total (and excluding caucus 'voters') is, uhh, ho hum. Nothing to get 'extreme rhetoric' about.


We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by fairleft on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 05:16:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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